In response to the AAS posts (thread starts at: http://www.animaladvocates.com/cgi/messageboard.pl/read/1245, about Deb Wold, the manager of the Shuswap/Salmon Arm SPCA, being a multiple dog and horse breeder, advertising widely in papers, and off-loading old, used breeders (very much like a puppymiller), Celia Harris, the Chair of the Shuswap SPCA's Community Advisory Council, posted a defense of her manager's breeding practices and revealed that she TOO is a breeder. (A letter at the bottom lists some of Wold's ads.)
This thread of posts reveals the kind of person that is attracted to SPCAs - because the SPCA's standards are so low! In fact, because the SPCA has NO standards about its employees, directors and CAC's breeding! Incredible but true. Some of the top people at the BC SCPA have bred and sold animals for decades, while the employees kill a steady stream of excess animals year after year.
There is no reason to believe the SPCA is sincere about reforming until it adopts a no-breeding policy for all its staff and directors - until the last SPCA shelter is empty!
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Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/5/2002 at 04:30:33 PM by Celia Harris
I take exception to the allegation our Shelter manager is "puppy mill". Check the facts....the pups are purchased pre born, home scrutinized before purchase.
She is CKC registered and has offered as a rescue for the breeds she selectively , at home, breeds. Note selectively, Puppy mills are non selective.......sell to anyone, and this does not apply to our manager.
We are the SHUSWAP, not Salmon Arm branch......
Please, find someone else to hound......our manger works hard for the homeless, is caring and an asset to our Branch.......We try as CAC to provide relief to the homeless, practiced maximum adoption long before it was mandated.....We struggle to keep our shelter financially solvent....and your unkind words, work against us....yet we have the common goal of help, security ,freedom to live..for all animals.....
Thank you,
Celia Harris CAC Chair Shuswap BCSPCA
Re(1): Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/5/2002 at 05:05:07 PM by Anon
I don't think people really care about the details to this Manager's breeding operation. The fact that she does breed at all, and contributes in ANY way to the pet overpopulation in this province, is a disgrace. And the fact that you, a CAC, condone this activity and make excuses for it, is pathetic in itself. Nobody has said she's not a nice person, and the way you jump to her defence can only mean you are friends with her, but your job is not to put that friendship ahead of your responsibility. It is to remain impartial and do what is right for the animals in the BCSPCA's care.The SPCA is in HUGE trouble as long as people keep putting their own personal agendas before what's best for the animals. I also don't know how any staff member can agree that breeding by SPCA employees is just hunky dory,especially given what they see at work every day.
Re(2): Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/5/2002 at 05:56:08 PM by Anonymous
Well said, Anon. Regardless of whether the Shelter Manager is a kind person or not is irrelevent. Staff should be expected to live by certain standards. When the BC SPCA is trying to preach that it is unacceptable for people to allow animals to breed, staff should not be breeders on the side. It's a conflict of interest.
Does she sterilize the puppies prior to adoption? Does she follow-up on the animals for the rest of their lives? If not, then she is directly contributing to the overpopulation problem!
Re(1): Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/5/2002 at 06:26:46 PM by Brenda
Sorry to call you the Salmon Arm Branch- I know you cover the whole Shuswap area. I meant the actual shelter location.
You say "the pups are purchased pre-born". Then why is she advertizing them in papers from the Coast all the way to Calgary? You say the homes are scrutinized before purchase. That's a lot of travelling for her to do. She advertized Shih Tsu pups in the Calgary Herald a few weeks back, saying the shipping was free. Sounds like a lot of puppy mill ads to me- "can ship", "will deliver". What about the "kennel reduction" sale she had in the paper last week? 5 adult dogs "for sale as a package". This doesn't sound to me like a person who's very "selective" at all when it comes to breeding.
5 adult dogs "for sale as a package".
Posted on 9/6/2002 at 05:19:34 PM by Anonymous
This is a puppymill tactic - sell breeders you don't want anymore as a package so someone else can set up a puppymill.
Celia Harris, CAC Chair of the Shuswap Branch of the BC SPCA, tell us all how you explain that?
And while you're at it, explain the ear and tail mutilation.
And do you take all the dumped Samoyeds out of SPCA's and take them into your heart and home and rehabilitate them? Or are you just on the production end of Samoyeds?
And the next time someone takes a matted, dirty, miserable Samoyed off a chain will you take it in to your heart and home and rehabiliate it too? Or is that "not nice"?
Re(1): Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/5/2002 at 07:47:11 PM by Unconvinced
I guess your manager's motto is do as I say, not as I do. It is hard to reconcile her telling people visiting the shelter that they have to spay or neuter the animal that they want to adopt, while at the same time she is breeding and selling pups across at least two provinces. I am sure that she is a very nice person but she and you apparently do not recognize a conflict of interest. There are many breed rescue groups who are working their hearts out to save pure bred dogs that have been abandoned at pounds or animal shelters. Anyone who works at a shelter can tell you that a pure bred dog being surrendered is not a rarity. Your manager really has no idea if she is adding to the problem or if five or six years down the road one of her pups will end up being dumped at a shelter. The bottom line is that she needs to decide whether she wants to help reduce the number of unwanted animals in our communities or add to the number. I don't believe she can do both and the fact that she is currently doing just that makes me wonder what effect that is having on fund raising efforts in your area.
What about the ears and tails?
Posted on 9/5/2002 at 07:56:53 PM by Concerned
I did not see you defend the ear-cropping allegation. Is that because it is not true, so you chose to disregard it, or is it true and you are unwilling to address it?
Shuswap Branch Diversion
Posted on 9/5/2002 at 08:37:25 PM by Getting Tired
Think straight - not Mad... I know that probably five/ten years ago nobody thought anything about "PROTECTING/LOVING" a breed by allowing it to procreate. However, times have changed, heck the BCSPCA has changed, so really the case for this individual that breeds and works for the BCSPCA at the same time is in my mind a PR nightmare - as well as media terms (if some of them would wake up) - YET ANOTHER full blown BCSPCA scandal...
Re(5): Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/6/2002 at 11:28:01 AM by Angus
Ms. Harris:
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how the SPCA can have a mandate of spaying and neutering pets to control animal populations and then employ someone who profits from the sale of even more animals. I think it is very sad that you see so many animals dumped at your doorstep everyday and cannot see that having someone who breeds dogs in your employ is not a conflict of interest. (whether or not your manager is a responsible breeder is irrelevant)
This is not an attack on your manager, yourself or your efforts. Please see this from my point of view, I adopted my dog from the SPCA, now I am solicited for donations for educating the public on spaying and neutering and responsible pet ownership. When I hear that a manager in your employ is contributing to a world already full of homeless animals makes me very disinclined to support your organization.
Please think about that, I'm not the only one.
Re(6): Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/6/2002 at 03:45:41 PM by Anon
Now I understand Celia, you defend this manager because you breed too! My gosh, when are some of you going to understand that breeding in general (no matter what the guidelies,no matter what you breed, and no matter what agreement is signed) is contributing to the huge problem of animal overpopulation. Then, you talk about banding together and forming an organization to fight backyard breeding and puppy mills,and all I can say to that is what in the heck do you think the SPCA is supposed to be doing? We don't need another group to do this, we need to keep kicking the SPCA in the backside to do this type of lobbying. To continue breeding because a certain breed is your "favorite and beloved" is plain selfish.Why don't we just stop breeding anything for one full year, so that we can at least get a handle on all of the poor dogs/cats who are rotting away in shelters. And for the record, now that we know that you too breed Celia, I feel you are also a conflict of interest for the SPCA, and should either stop breeding while you represent them, or quit. I'm not trying to be critical and argumentative either, and I won't appologize if the truth hurts.
Re(6): Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/6/2002 at 12:23:52 AM by Celia Harris
Dear Angus,
Thank you for not being annoymous.....I hear what you say.....but I have been able in my personal life to combine love of a Breed, Samoyeds, and adopting animals. I have 12 dogs, 8 samoyeds, and 4 of the "homeless. I believe in my chosen Breed of Samoyeds, long associated with man.....practice careful VERY selective breeding, have occasional planned litters, and sell occasionally,....to homes who want a companion Samoyed, not a Show dog...I have never, NEVER, check with Income Tax and GST depts, profitted from a litter, I lose money every time, but the loss, offset by knowing my Sammies have a good home. All are sold as non breeding, all are sold with "life time guarantee," by this I mean I take them back, at any time in their life...if the owner meets with problems and can no longer care for the Kiwisam as I would wish for them. I have received back 6 dogs under these terms, kept 3 and luckily found excellent loving home for the other three... No one, no one who knows me could deny my deep affection, respect and love for my dogs.....I work for the homeless as much as I can.... My expertise and experience with dogs, an asset......I freely give advice to new adopters at the shelter....I know where everyone of the dogs I have bred lives, know how they are doing...contact absolute, Christmas delightful when I receive letters and photos...
So my question to all who replied....I really am confused, so help me, don't criticize me.....
Do you want a world where no dogs are bred?" this means some sad day, there will be no companion animals, and I for one, would be lost without my faithful 4 footed friends, sprawled asleep on the bedroom floor, the lick in the morning when I wake, the joy of seeing them run free and happy on our thrice daily walks...
I know, accept, bad breeders exist......and I have tried and will keep trying at CKC level to improve this....They license us, set the standards but fall short of enforcing good breeding conditions....Maybe we all, could start lobbying and leaning on an agency that sets the purebred standards......Let us help one another, those of you who read this, believe my sincerity in respect and wanting a better life for so many homeless, abused, lonely...they who only have love to give.....and believe my sincerity in wanting to do, try to do, every day I volunteer at the Shelter, as much as I can, even one hug, one minute of play...but it gives them something to believe in.....
Let us stop this squabble and warfare...and work TOGETHER......I beg you...for those who cannot speak for themselves.......
I know this is an SPCA slogan, but it is a poignant one.....yes, things can be better, but together makes many voices......
Yours truly,
Celia Harris
Re(7): Shuswap Branch BCSPCA
Posted on 9/6/2002 at 01:50:07 PM by Angus
I agree with you about responsible breeders, I wish there were no pet stores, no back-yard breeders, and no need for shelters at all.
However while you are working for the SPCA, you cannot have a "do as I say, not as I do" method and expect the public to support you financially and otherwise, it's just not right. What about the cropping issue? Can you respond to that? Again, your mandate clearly states that the SPCA is against all such procedures, if your manager does this can you honestly tell me this is not hypocritical?
To Michael Steven, President
And the Board of Directors, BC SPCA
During your upcoming board meeting you may wish to consider the issue of guidelines for employees of the BC SPCA. Below are listed the text of ads placed in the Vancouver Sun and Province newspapers since June 20th 2002. The phone number in the ads belongs to the Wolds.
20 June 2002: "DOBERMAN PINSCHER PUPS CKC Reg., vacc. Vet chk, CDN Champ sire. Natural ears, $800; cropped $1100. 250-546-2125 Armstrong BC. wold@junction.net"
20 June 2002: "SHIH TZU red/wht female reg'd. Champion sire. 4 mos. old. $500. 250-546-2125, Armstrong, BC."
24 July 2002: "DOBERMAN Pinscher pups, Cdn. Champion sire, CKC, shots, vet checked, Pets $800. 250 546-2125, Armstrong BC"
3 August 2002: "DOBERMAN Pinscher pups, Cdn. Champion sired, reg'd, vaccinated. Excellent pedigree. Pets $800. (non-breeding). Ph (250) 546-2125, Armstrong BC"
10 August 2002: "August 10\2002 DOBERMAN Pinscher pups, Cdn. Champion sired, reg'd, vaccinated. Excellent pedigree. Pets $800. (non-breeding 250-546-2125"
23 August 2002: "DOBERMAN PINSCHER PUPS registered, shots, tattoed. Canadian Chap sire, great temperments, versatility, family guardian. $800 natural ears, $1050 cropped. (250) 546-2125"
In the Calgary Buy & Sell, 30 June 2002: "250-546-2125 Shih Tzu,black & white, red & white, born Feb/2002, Canadian Champion father, US import mother, exc pedigree, pets $600, breeding $850, incl airfare to Calgary"
In the Vernon Morning Star, 11 August 2002: "DOBERMAN Pinscher pups, registered, shots, tattooed, vet checked. Canadian Champion sire, great temperaments, versatility, family guardian. $800. Natural ears, cropped extra. 250-546-2125"
In the North Thompson Star Journal, 11 August 2002: ""DOBERMAN Pinscher pups, registered, shots, tattooed, vet checked. Canadian Champion sire, great temperaments, versatility, family guardian. $800. Natural ears, cropped extra. 250-546-2125"
In the Kootenay Advertiser, 11 August 2002: ""DOBERMAN Pinscher pups, registered, shots, tattooed, vet checked. Canadian Champion sire, great temperaments, versatility, family guardian. $800. Natural ears, cropped extra. 250-546-2125"
Thank-you for your attention. Please let me know what decision the Board makes with regard to this matter.
Sincerely,
Joann U. Bessler