September 10, 2004: Schwab: Seizure of Mare and Foal from Scotty Creek ( Kelowna)
Video taken without the SPCA's knowledge at the time of seizure
showing the SPCA seizing healthy horses - without a warrant
The PCA Act says healthy animals must not be seized and even sick animals can be left onsite and improvements made to the care and site.
Leaving animals onsite is sometimes far more humane than moving them.
If animals are seized, "seizure costs" can be demanded by the SPCA.

See video footage secretly made during the seizure
Return to SPCA seizures home page

Being seized by the SPCA on September 10, 2004	Images from video taken without the SPCA's knowledge




After court-ordered return, November 26, 2004, after being in the SPCA's custody




The Schwabs tell their story...
May 25, 2006 Frank and Idella Schwab Kelowna B.C. To whom it may concern, Re: Unlawful and unethical practices by the B.C. S.P.C.A. in the seizure of our mare and foal on September 10, 2004 I, Idella Schwab, have concerns regarding the unethical and unlawful practices of the S.P.C.A. I wrote to the Hon. John van Dongen November 16, 2004, about our problem and concern for our horses. I was advised to make a complaint to the Special Provincial Constable complaints of the Police Services Division which I did. I was told to send my complaint to the S.P.C.A. which I had already tried. I was frustrated to think that there was no way to make the S.P.C.A. officers follow their guidelines set out in the PCA Act. They are like vultures preying on elderly, widowed, ill and handicapped persons. On the evening of September 9, 2004, the tenant who lives on the property where we board our horses (about ½ hour’s drive from our home) and feeds the horses for us every other day, phoned to say the mare was limping slightly but that her leg was not swollen. On the morning of September 10, 2004 my husband, Frank Schwab, went to the pasture as he does every other morning to feed and care for the horses. He also saw that the mare was limping slightly and knew that her ringbone arthritis was acting up and he put liniment on the ankle as he has in the past. At 12:48 p.m. September 10, 2004 I received a phone call from S.P.C.A. officer Richard Alberta who said he was at the pasture and that the mare was limping. I told Mr Alberta that my husband said the mare’s ankle was only slightly swollen and not warm to the touch and there were no open wounds. Mr Alberta told me that the mare’s leg was swollen to twice its size. I was shocked and said we would go there immediately. He said, “No, don’t come out, I have a vet coming and after the vet has examined the horse I will call and let you know what is happening. I waited all afternoon and he never called. At 2:20 p.m. the tenant called me to ask me if I knew the S.P.C.A. was there. I said and I did know and that the S.P.C.A. was waiting for a vet to arrive. She said the vet was there and it looked like they were waiting for a vehicle to haul the horses away. I asked the tenant if the mare’s leg was swollen to twice its size and she said, No, it was the same as it was in the morning. I asked her if she could take a picture of it. She said Yes and tried to take a picture with her video camera but the Senior S.P.C.A. Constable who was holding the mare, Brad Kuich (see enclosed video) stood in front of the leg so she couldn’t get the picture. She then used a zoom lens and videotaped the seizure from her bedroom window. The video proves the mare was not in critical distress as the S.P.C.A. later claimed, as she only limped when she turned and was grazing to her heart’s content. (PCA Act definition of critical distress is an animal that is so sick or injured that its life can’t be saved and has to be humanely killed quickly to end its suffering. Definition attached.) 3:30 p.m. September 10, 2004 The mare and foal were trucked away without the S.P.C.A. calling us and without a warrant. We learned after that the PCA Act says the S.P.C.A. is also supposed to first give an Offence Warning Notice to owners which states the causes of the “distress” and gives the owners a set time to “relieve the distress”. The S.P.C.A. did not give us an Offence Warning Notice either. But the Act does not say that the S.P.C.A. has to give an Offence Warning Notice or get a warrant if the animal is in “critical distress” (near death) so that is probably why the S.P.C.A. afterward said our mare was in critical distress in the newspaper. But if she really was in “critical distress” why didn’t the S.P.C.A. put her out of her suffering? (They tried to a month later and were stopped just in time.) The jolting of the horse trailer and because she dislikes being in a trailer so much, the S.P.C.A. caused the mare a lot of cruel distress and she would have been better left where she was happy and familiar and treated there as the Act says the S.P.C.A. is supposed to do. (S.P.C.A. Manual attached.) September 14, 2004 I couldn’t get any information from the S.P.C.A as to what I had to do to get our mare and foal back, or their veterinarian, until September 14^th. Then Constable Kuich said the mare had laminitis which both my husband and I disputed. (Laminitis is more serious than arthritis but is not “critical distress” either, though the S.P.C.A. claimed it was.) I tried to talk to Dr Teresa Jacobson, the S.P.C.A.’s vet who attended the seizure (see video) to find out why she didn’t talk to us about treatment and I wanted to know why she thought the mare had laminitis. According to the PCA Act one must respond to the notice of seizure within two weeks or the S.P.C.A. can dispose of the animals anyway they wish. I had only three days left and I could not find out what they wanted so I had to hire a lawyer. Our lawyer, Rob McLeod of Kelowna, got the S.P.C.A. to agree to have our mare examined by another vet. They tried to choose which vet, but our lawyer insisted that our vet, Dr Sheila McDonald of Okanagan Equine services in Kelowna, be allowed. October 28, 2004 Dr Jacobson took an x-ray of the mare’s ankle which proved the mare did not have laminitis. And yet the S.P.C.A. continued to refuse to return our horses and continued their threats to dispose of her and to charge us for their “seizure costs”. October 12, 2004 Dr McDonald went early in the morning to examine our mare, just in time to stop the S.P.C.A. from killing our mare that day. Dr McDonald saw the x-ray taken on October 12^th. Dr McDonald’s diagnosis was arthritis of the pastern joint. Dr McDonald reported that the mare’s overall condition dropped from a 9 to a 2 in the month she was in the S.P.C.A.’s custody. The mare and the foal were being kept in an unsafe, small corral with sharp thorny branches sticking out of the ground. There were pieces of metal lying on the ground and one piece was stuck in the ground with a wire wrapped around it at eye-level of the foal. There was water but no hay, supplement, grain, salt or mineral block. The mare was fed two flakes of poor-grade hay morning and night, total weight, 16 lbs. She was overdosed with phenylbutazone which can cause gastric ulcers, bone marrow depression, and kidney problems. The acepromazine she was given was not necessary as it is used to treat laminitis, which she did not have. The diet was inadequate for a horse her size while nursing a two month old foal. (This is a summary of Dr McDonald’s report which is attached.) What the S.P.C.A. was doing was cruel. They had scheduled the mare to be put down on October 12^th, but Dr McDonald managed to examine the mare before the S.P.C.A. could destroy the evidence that they had illegally seized, misdiagnosed and starved this animal. How dare they try to make us pay for starving an animal! They will do anything to get their way. The S.P.C.A. was not happy with Dr McDonald’s report so they called in Dr Alex Wales whose report was much the same except he recommended a diet to get the mare back in shape. I do not think it was followed because six weeks later, when the court had ordered the horses returned to us, they were still in poor condition. (See photos attached.) I have attached the reports of Dr Jacobson, Dr Wales, and Dr McDonald. November 13, 2004 We, and about 20 other people, some who had their own bad experiences with the S.P.C.A. and some who knew that we had taken good care of our horses, held a demonstration on the road outside the Kelowna S.P.C.A. to try to make the public aware of what the S.P.C.A. had become. The S.P.C.A. believed that I had instigated it (I hadn’t) and (as our lawyer said), sold our horses to punish us. November 18, 2004 We appeared in court to try to get our horses back. The affidavit submitted by the SPCA contained a lot of untrue and fabricated material as well as unfactual accusations. Fortunately, the judge ruled in our favour. He ordered that the pasture be examined (the S.P.C.A. claimed it was no good). We suspected the S.P.C.A. would not pass the pasture though Dr McDonald had inspected and approved it. So we chose to pay a lot of money to have the horses boarded at Eight Mile Ranch with Kim Stinson, a horse expert. This put the S.P.C.A. in an awkward position because they had sold our horses and they couldn’t “fail” Kim’s place without a lot of questions being asked, so the judge ordered the S.P.C.A. to return our horses. November 26, 2004 The horses arrived at Eight Mile Ranch still in very poor condition (photos taken at this time attached) The mare was thin, her coat dull and matted, her hooves needed trimming. She had an oozing abscess on her left shoulder. The foal’s growth was stunted, he had developed a hernia and his teeth were brown instead of white. We had to pay $1800 for special feed and veterinary services to return them to something approaching their previous condition. The S.P.C.A. continued to say it was going to sue us $3800 plus court and legal costs for its “seizure costs” even though it knew that it had almost killed our horses and that the seizure was wrong. That was before our lawyer allowed it to see the video. May 9, 2005 Suddenly – after seeing the video the S.P.C.A. - wanted to “negotiate” and a meeting was held in our lawyer’s office with our lawyer, myself, my husband, Constable Kuich, Constable Kathy Woodward (who had nothing to do with this), the S.P.C.A’s lawyer, Donald Montrichard, but not Dr Jacobson, the vet who was being blamed for the warrantless seizure of healthy animals. My husband was not happy about some of the conditions the S.P.C.A. was trying to impose on us under threat of pursuing a legal action against us, but when he questioned the conditions, Mr Montrichard said it would cost us $50,000 to go to court and he always wins! We felt threatened and bullied by this man. We were told that we couldn’t disclose any of the conditions of the agreement and we were not to publicly blame the S.P.C. A. (At first they tried to get us sign that the S.P.C.A. had not broken any law and was only acting in the animals’ best interests!) Nor were we allowed to say how much money we had had to pay the S.P.C.A. and were not going to get back. If we had had enough money to fight them in court we would have and taken our chances. We had the video and that, plus the vets’ reports, should have won this case but we did not have enough money to sue the S.P.C.A and we were not sure that we would be awarded costs and damages. In all, this seizure cost us almost $20,000 Since this happened to us, we have heard of many cases worse than ours. People have been forced into bankruptcy, lost their homes, and livelihoods, some ending up depressed and with serious health problems as were both my husband and myself. In all cases the S.P.C.A. had seized healthy animals. I believe that because the S.P.C.A. can’t sell sick animals it takes healthy ones as well when making a seizure. Then they make monsters of cruelty out of the owners in the media to get donations. And they make sure the owners are convicted of cruelty and in many cases are restricted from owning animals again so the S.P.C.A. can sell the healthy animals it seized. It is time to stop the S.P.C.A.’s terrorism and the stealing of healthy animals. Please push for legislation and laws to make the S.P.C.A. honest. The S.P.C.A. should not mislead the public. They appeal to the public for funds to help feed and treat animals in their care and then use that money for lawyers and court cases. Please help animals and animal-owners of BC. Thank you, Idella and Frank Schwab

An interview with Idella Schwab AAS spoke to Idella Schwab several times beginning soon after the horses were seized on September 10th, 2004. Idella told us that Frank Schwab had been to see the mare on the morning of the seizure and noticed that her arthritis was acting up, but there was no heat and no swelling as there would have been if the mare had laminitis. He rubbed liniment on her leg and cleaned her hoof. Here is Idella's version of events which we find more believable than the SPCA's: Brad Kuich, the SPCA cruelty investigator said "He asked the owners, Idella and Frank Schwab, to attend, but neither of them showed up." Idella told us that Kuich told the Schwabs not to meet him at the pasture, that after the SPCA's vet, Dr Teresa Jacobsen had been to examine the mare, he would phone the Schwabs to tell them what the vet recommended. (Dr Jacobsen is active on behalf of the SPCA, appearing as an "expert witness" in court for the SPCA: see the Materi seizure and the Douglas seizure). Kuich did not phone the Schwabs, instead seizing the mare and foal without a warrant . Idella also told us that the experienced horse vet, Dr Sheila McDonald told her that while the mare was in SPCA custody the SPCA gave her two times as much phenylbutazone than is the correct dosage and this is very bad for her health. (See photos above of the condition of the mare and foal after being in SPCA custody.) A person living very near the corral where the SPCA was keeping the seized mare and foal was so concerned about the rapid deterioration and weight lose of the mare and pieces of sharp metal in the corral, that she phoned the SPCA to make a complaint...not knowing that the SPCA itself had custody of the horses. The pieces of metal in the ground is one of the reasons the SPCA has used to justify seizing horses and cattle from owners. "On the vet's advice and without a warrant, Kuich took the mare and colt off the property for treatment." Seizing someone's property without a warrant is a very serious possible infringement of a person's Charter rights. Kuich pleaded, *"I (made the order) under the critical-distress protocol of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act,"* he said. "This animal was in critical distress. If it didn't get help, its condition would worsen, and the animal could possibly die." The SPCA may only seize an animal without a warrant if immediate veterinary treatment cannot prolong the animal's life or prolonging the animal's life would result in the animal suffering unduly. In other words, the animal is so near death that it cannot be saved and has to be destroyed. There were witnesses who saw the mare peacefully grazing at the time of the seizure and there is the video that the tenant secretly made. And if that were true, why wasn't the mare put out of her suffering? Was there really no time to apply for a warrant, something that can take only a few hours? Was the mare so close to death that the Schwab's Charter rights could be over-ridden? X-rays taken shortly after the seizure show no laminitis according to the experienced Dr McDonald. It would appear that the SPCA trampled the Schwab's right to reasonable search and seizure for a touch of arthritis.
Kelowna Courier: Vet gives contrary opinion on the condition of the horses By DON PLANT The Daily Courier A veterinarian who examined two horses seized by the SPCA says they are being kept on a starvation diet and should be returned to their owners Sheila McDonald, a horse specialist and Kelowna vet for 21 years, was allowed to assess the condition of a 25-year-old mare and her two-month old foal at an undisclosed location last week. The Kelowna SPCA took the animals into custody on Sept. 10, when another vet determined the mare was suffering a serious foot inflammation called laminitis "This horse was wrongfully seized, and the horses should be returned to their owners," McDonald said McDonald contradicts the original vet's diagnosis, saying an X-ray taken Sept. 22 reveals the mare has ringbone arthritis a condition easily treated in her left front leg, and does not have laminitis. She estimates the mare weighs about 915 pounds, about 50 to 60 pounds less than when she was seized "She's being fed a starvation diet while she's trying to feed her foal. She's at peak lactation right now," McDonald said. "She's not being fed enough to maintain herself, much less feed a foal." The horses were being kept in a small corral with sharp branches sticking out of the ground, McDonald said. Pieces of metal were on the ground and no salt block was in the vicinity "I am surprised that this foal has not received a skin or eye injury from the rose thorns," she said "The current corral is too hazardous for any horse, but especially for a young foal." Brad Kuich, the SPCA cruelty investigator who ordered the horses' removal from their pasture on Scotty Creek Road, said staff are addressing McDonald's concerns about the corral He denies the horses are being fed a starvation diet. "We're going on the recommendations of our vet, which are being closely monitored. The vet is ensuring this animal is not in pain and they're not starving," he said The mare was limping and "in a lot of pain" when the first vet examined her, Kuich said He asked the owners, Idella and Frank Schwab, to attend, but neither of them showed up, he said. On the vet's advice and without a warrant, Kuich took the mare and colt off the property for treatment. "I (made the order) under the critical-distress protocol of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act," he said. "This animal was in critical distress. If it didn't get help, its condition would worsen, and the animal could possibly die." The seizure polarized the neighbourhood and spurred hostile phone calls to the SPCA. Residents collected names on a petition condemning the horses' removal Maryann Gill, who complained to the SPCA about the horses' condition, says the dispute isn't about the animals anymore "Why are we slamming the SPCA and the neighbours? Why not get together as a community and fix the problem?" she said. "It isn't about taking ownership from these people. If you can fix the problem, keep the horses." The SPCA planned to investigate the condition of two studs living on the same pasture. The Schwabs have shipped them to Alberta, which they planned to do in the first place "We hurried it up because the SPCA said they were considering taking the other horses," Idella Schwab, 73, said. "(McDonald's report) is kind of a relief, but at the same time I'm very angry with the SPCA." The SPCA won't decide whether to dispose of the animals until the dispute is resolved. Meanwhile, it is considering asking another veterinarian to assess the mare's condition. "It may come down to a third opinion," Kuich said. "Unfortunately, the situation is digging in. We're holding our ground. I'm still comfortable we did the right thing."
Kelowna Courier: Animal lovers protest the seizure Nov. 13/04 By Daily Courier Staff More than a dozen animal lovers protested the SPCA's seizure of a Scotty Creek couple's horses by picketing the Casorso Road shelter Saturday. "We're all frustrated with this," said Kitt Vogelsang, a neighbour of elderly Idella and Frank Schwab who own the mare and filly seized by SPCA officials on Sept. 10. 'The neighbour who complained doesn't know squat about horses. This is a case of personal animosity involving her dogs and the people who live across the street. The horses were implicated in something that didn't involve them. If there had been anything inordinate, those of us who have owned horses ourselves would have said something immediately." The protest, which began at 11 a.m. Saturday before the shelter opened, caught SPCA staff by surprise. "The last thing we want to do is to seize someone's animals," said branch manager Dianne McKeown. "We received 787 animal complaints last year. We resolved the majority of them by talking to people. Every complaint we take seriously." The Schwab seizure is now in the hands of lawyers so McKeown can't comment on that specific case. As she read one of the protest signs, she commented: "SPCA targets seniors. Oh come on. They're only hurting the animals. There are other means of communicating. We have a lot of families coming in her Saturdays. I just don't want anyone hurt." A Kelowna RCMP member told 15 protestors they could walk along the paved bicycle path but could not obstruct vehicles from using the SPCA driveway. Wayne Barron, one of the protestors, said the seized mare was not suffering from laminitis, an inflammation of tissue in the foot, as diagnosed by the SPCA's veterinarian. "They (the seized horses) should have been returned but the SPCA doesn't want to admit it made a mistake. Someone in government should hold the SPCA accountable, appoint an ombudsman or get the B.C. Ministry of Agriculture involved like other provinces. Where is the public's defense other than hiring a lawyer and going to court?" he asked. Judges don't have any insight into animal cruelty cases because they donÂ¹t deal with them every day like they do criminal charges, he added. Neighbour Edna Thiessen, who also owns horses, said the SPCA didn't ask the Schwabs to help load the horses which was accomplished with great difficulty. Nicole Ste. Marie and Michel Petrullis drove to Kelowna from Grand Forks to join the protest. An SPCA inspector seized 16 dogs from his home four-and-a-half months ago, said Petullis, who is still waiting for a court date to fight the charges. According to him, a veterinarian provided recommendations on food, water and collars but the inspector said: "I'm taking them anyway." After the first month, Petullis said he received a $12,000 bill from the SPCA for the vet, transportation and care of the dogs.
Kelowna Courier: Residents have launched a petition after the SPCA seized a popular horse and her colt from a neighbourhood pasture Posted By: AAS Date: Monday, 15 November 2004, at 5:35 p.m. By DON PLANT The Daily Courier Residents have launched a petition after the SPCA seized a popular horse and her colt from a neighbourhood pasture People living along Scotty Creek Road are demanding that SPCA staff return the animals. They claim the owners treat the 25-yearold mare well and that shelter officials have exaggerated the ailment afflicting her. "The SPCA really acted inappropriately," said Kitt Vogelsang, who started the petition in the Scotty Creek area. "They forced her, with a limp, into a trailer. They had a hell of a time getting the colt in there. This is just short of modern horse thievery." Other neighbours complained to the SPCA that the mare, named Holly, was limping and experts should look into it. Brad Kuich, an SPCA cruelty investigator, took the horses into custody on Sept. 10 after calling in a veterinarian to examine Holly "We found one of the horses was in critical distress and suffering from laminitis (inflammation of tissue in the foot)," Kuich said. "The vet said the horse was in a tremendous amount of pain and would need ongoing treatment, so we'd have to take the animal off the property." Owners Idella and Frank Schwab, both 73, were incensed by the seizure. They say Holly only began limping Sept. 9. They cleaned out her hoof and applied liniment the next morning Once the vet had examined Holly that afternoon, SPCA staff arrived to haul the animals away in a trailer Since then, the Schwabs have had several conversations with Kuich but still don't know how to get their horses back. They've called a lawyer to prevent the SPCA from adopting them out to new owners "That horse has never been sick or lame a day in her life," said Idella Schwab "Since laminitis is treatable, why don't they give us a chance to treat the horse? ... We could have treated that horse right where she was." The couple claims they can hire their own vet to assess Holly, but no one will tell them where she's being kept. They haven't been told how to appeal the seizure or what conditions they must fullfil to get the horses back Legally, the SPCA can dispose of the animals by Thursday, two weeks after it presented the Schwabs with a deposition on the seizure. Kuich said he's aware they want the horses back and they don't need to panic "We won't dispose of the animals until this is resolved," he said. "We had a number of complaints from neighbours about these horses. We do something about it and they complain about what we do. It's a catch-22. We're trying to do the best we can for these animals." Kuich also plans to question the Schwabs about the two studs they keep. One is tethered and the other is confined to a pen Idella said they tethered one stud because neighbourhood dogs or coyotes scared the animal and forced it to jump a fence onto the road. The other must be separated from the first male or they'll fight to the death The first stud has room to lie down and enough food to eat, said pasture-owner Doreen Corlazzoli. "The SPCA is a worthwhile society, but what they're doing to us and the owners is terrible. It's like a nightmare," she said. "These animals are not mistreated." Holly's condition was unknown Monday. Under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act, the Schwabs must pick up the tab for treating Holly and her seven-week old colt if the SPCA returns them, Kuich said.