From 20/20's public forum:http://forums.go.com/abcnews/2020/forum?start=0&forumID=17&byThread=true

marabethwhite SPCA STORY - Good and Bad
Posted: Jun 04, 2005 02:18 PM reply
1 Posts
Registered: Jun 04, 2005 11:58 AM

John: I thought the story on the Dallas SPCA was good in showing the unfairness of the situation with the Dallas SPCA. It is so arbitrary and with no standard for determining cruelty or neglect or health of the animals involved. The SPCA runs over people with little concern for fairness or "rightness".

One thing I wish you had hit on too was the fact that not all of those dogs were adopted (not sold really...adopted). Quite likely most of the older dogs seized were destroyed (I refuse to use euthanized) bec. of age, condition or temperament. So, rather than letting these senior dogs live in a grass yard like those I saw on your segment, they quite likely went to the SPCA and were destroyed.

Do you have any idea about how many were killed? Knowing how shelters work, especially large ones like Dallas, they keep the cream of the crop and destroy the rest. What they did to those dogs and owners is atrocious.
Funny too, the evaluators were not even vets.

I did find the use of the word "rescuer" ill used, however. I would much rather have seen you use the term SPCA staff or employees, etc. rather than putting a blight on the word rescuer. I've been Prez. of Dalmatian Rescue of CO since 1989, and having saved nealy 2,000 Dalmatians and Dalmatian mixes in that time, I am deeply involved in dog rescue with people all over the country. 99.9% of those rescuers are GOOD people.

My hope is that you do a story now on the tremenduous rescue effort in this country. Most animal rescuers are big hearted, overworked, give of their time and funds freeley, and save thousands of lives. Since the advent of active rescues and also the internet, I'm guessing probably 2/3 of the dogs that were once killed are now saved and put into homes. This is something that needs to be acknowledged and even suupported. Any positive publicity would be most beneficial! You need to show the fabulous work done, the tremendous cost, and the great need for help. Introduce the public to how they might help the whole rescue effort and thus help many more animals. I'd be happy to consult with you should you be interested. I'm nationally connected and would be happy to discuss this if you're interested.

phatbonzExcellent Report! Bravo!
Posted: Jun 03, 2005 08:59 PM reply
5 Posts
Registered: Jun 03, 2005 08:31 PM

I was pleased to see the disgusting behavior of this particular SPCA exposed tonight. I am a sworn municipal animal control officer who sees this as a growing trend amoung these non-profit organizations and it needs to be given a closer look. There is a lot of money in this business, no matter what is said to the contrary. My county does not maintain it's own municipal shelter, we instead contract with a local Humane Society who's own philosophy (in my observation)mirrors what I watched tonight. I implore the powers that be to look into these organizations and to take action against these raiders. What they may find is that in fact the laws are NOT behind these bogus search and seizures. I could go into a Judge anytime and present a picture that would grant me a warrant to search and seize, however I am bound by law and sworn to tell the truth of the matter each time I present a case for seizure consideration to a judge. We do not seize dogs in the conditions I observed tonight, we do educate, write warnings requiring improvements in a reasonable period of time and then I DO MY JOB, I return to see that the corrections are made. I may have to impose fines, issue citations and in extreme cases only, seek the custody of the animals involved but we NEVER take animals without the blessing of a competent vet to back us up!

Responsibility for this lies with all involved, including the entity approving such a warrant based on the evidence brought before them. It's simply outrageous that this can happen or that it should continue. I am sickened by it and hope that all who saw this report are aware that there are good organizations out there that are non profit as well as your local municipal agencies who are not in this to make money or to glorify themselves as heros.

As a professional who is involved in the process of seizure, I am suspicious of any agency who would coordinate a news team to follow along on search and seizure warrants. It causes me to question their motives. It appears that this particular organization has a very strong (and savvy) PR philosophy, who's interest is in rallying public support, gained through false media representation to aid in bolstering its revenue? How could any animal lover resist such a parade of heart wrenching scenes? It's disgusting and shameful!

Wake up people... this is BIG BUSINESS and what you saw in this report is happening all over the country. Take it from one who sees it from an insiders point of view.

phatbonz Re: Re: Excellent Report! Bravo!
reply
Posted: Jun 03, 2005 09:18 PM
5 Posts
Registered: Jun 03, 2005

I am not defending all the conditions that were shown, I AM saying that under most state and county laws those were not conditions that warranted immediate removal. Most municipalities have or should have a limit on the number of animals owned by their citizens in place. If a resident should have reason to have a number over the allowed limit, a kennel licensing program should be in place where such licensees would be inspected regularly to ensure conditions such as we saw tonight would not be allowed to continue.

Most state laws cover the basic needs being met, which of course also include sanitary conditions. However as the vet stated you can't have dogs without having dog poop and that cannot be kept completely picked up 24/7. It often boils down to personal standards which cannot come into play when you are enforcing the law. While my dogs live and sleep inside with me for instance, I cannot impose those standards on a citizen who keeps their dog tied outside with shelter. The law allows them to do so. I may chose to scoop my catbox twice daily.... if you clean yours out once per week should I remove your cat for neglect? See, standards. Laws are based on standards, if the law does not specifically say how much poop is too much, who is the authority to make that determination? Mr. Garcia? Me? You? As enforcement professionals we have to honestly and fairly interprete the laws when faced with situations like this and not allow our personal standards to cloud our judgement. Action needed to be taken to improve the quality of the lives of those animals, however what I saw was over the top.

reply Posted: Jun 04, 2005 12:31 PM
7 Posts
Registered: Jun 02, 2005

my thoughts exactly! and by the way the aspca in nyc are no better than the spca's. watch the tv shows carefully... they were in on a raid in upstate ny. they took over 300 animnals they said the horses had long feet i have seen the video. horses were taken that were perfectly clean until they brought them purposely into a unused muddy pen and let them run to the end of two lead lines held by two theives and then they pulled the horses over onto its back and once covered in mud they then took a picture of it. it was a free for all with spca's from all over the country fighting with each other over who was going to get what. they broke down fences and then ran them over, they dragged one woman out of bed in her bra and underware to stand in front of the 100 or so "peace officers", they went to the door of the home which a child answered with their guns drawn. the peace officer that originally signed the warrant had not completed his training for an animal cruelty investigator. we have him on video asking if one of the birds was a duck or a goose. they took buckets, and even a small pool. they took coi fish from a pond which by the way were never counted. the d.a. came out herself and there is a picture of her holding cat cages, they took the cats and many were never accounted for. oh did i mention that the d.a. has her own non profit helping cats? she then went on to prosecute the case. we are asking for a senate hearing into the abuse of power of the spcas and humane societies. i have been told that we will have one. i will leave notice on john stossells forum with additional info.

laurieforfreedomsenate/congressonal hearing
Posted: Jun 04, 2005 12:45 PM reply
7 Posts
Registered: Jun 02, 2005 01:46 PM

my horse freedom which i owned for over 25 years, my stud paso fino and mare were stolen 8 years ago by a new york spca and then sold by a humane society. i had worked with nonprofits for over 30 years and knew a scam when i saw it. the abuse of power of the spca's and the humane societies has gone on long enough! every year their lobbies are getting stronger and the laws they enact have been etching away little by little animal owners rights. we have been working on getting a senate or congressional hearing for animal owners and we beleive we have a senator who is willing to take this on. as soon as confirmed which should be soon i will post on john stossells message board.